“Imali emkhayeni ingaba nezincazelo ezihlukahlukene”

Psychology: Ingabe umbhangqwana uhlale usibona isimo lapho inkosikazi ihola kakhulu njengokungajwayelekile, okungajwayelekile, noma ingabe le nketho iyamukeleka kubo bobabili abalingani ngezinye izikhathi?¹

Vyacheslav Moskvichev: Okokuqala nje, lesi simo sithathwa njengesingavamile iningi ezweni lakithi, emphakathini wethu. Ngakho-ke, umndeni uqondiswa yile mibono kanye nokulindelwe. Futhi lapho isimo esinjalo siphakama, lapho inkosikazi iba ngaphezu kwendoda, ngamunye wabo ungaphansi kwengcindezi yemibono yamasiko. Futhi ukuthi le mibono isho ukuthini kubo - noma ngabe kusho ukuthi inhloko yomndeni iyashintsha noma ukuthi kukhona ongafezi indima yakhe, enqunywe isiko - kuncike kakhulu ekutheni yiyiphi imibono kulaba ababili abangaphansi kwethonya nokuthi kanjani. bandawonye. ukuxazulula le nkinga. Ngoba kuyinselele ngempela. Futhi esimweni sethu, emasikweni ethu, kudinga izenzo eziqaphela ngempela ezivela kubo bobabili abalingani.

Ingabe isiko Russian? Ucabanga ukuthi eNtshonalanga lesi sigaba sesidlulile, ukuthi lesi simo sesiphenduke insakavukela?

I-VM: Esikhathini esingeside esidlule, ngingathi: emasikweni ethu, ngokomthetho, emazweni endabuko. Emazweni amaningi, indima yendoda iwukuthola imali nokuba nesibopho sobudlelwane bangaphandle. Futhi le nkulumo yezinzalamizi yayibusa hhayi emasikweni ethu kuphela. Kodwa ngempela, amazwe aseYurophu manje anikeza owesifazane amathuba engeziwe okuzimela, abe sezingeni elilinganayo, aqale ukuhola imali engaphansi komyeni wakhe, noma ukugcina isabelomali esihlukile. Futhi-ke, emazweni aseNtshonalanga Yurophu, e-United States, e-Australia, lokhu kuwumkhuba ovame kakhulu kunowethu. Okwamanje, okungenani.

Nakuba phakathi kwalabo abaphendukela kudokotela wezengqondo ukuze bathole usizo, angeke kusashiwo ukuthi lesi yisimo esingavamile. Yiqiniso, ezimweni eziningi, amadoda ahola kakhulu. Uma sikhuluma iqiniso, kunezifundo eziningi ezibonisa ukuncika kweholo kubulili: emsebenzini ofanayo, kuze kube manje abesifazane bathola iholo elincane kunabesilisa.

Kuyathakazelisa ukuthi lapho sibuza lo mbuzo njengombuzo ongaqondakali kubantu besilisa abahlukahlukene - "Ungazizwa kanjani ngeqiniso lokuthi umkakho uhola ngaphezu kwakho?", - wonke umuntu waphendula ngenjabulo: "Hhayi-ke, lokhu kulula kakhulu, makahole. . Isimo esihle. ngizophumula». Kodwa lapho lesi simo sikhula eqinisweni, izivumelwano zisadingeka, uhlobo oluthile lwengxoxo yesimo esisha sezindaba. UCABANGANI?

I-VM: Impela indaba yemali idinga ukudingidwa. Futhi le ngxoxo ngokuvamile, ngeshwa, inzima. Kokubili emndenini nangaphandle komndeni. Ngoba imali, ngakolunye uhlangothi, imane ilingana nokuhwebelana, futhi ngakolunye uhlangothi, ebuhlotsheni, imali ithola izincazelo ezihluke ngokuphelele. Ngeke kushiwo ukuthi lena incazelo eyodwa kuphela. Isibonelo, umqondo othi "imali ingamandla", "ubani onemali, onamandla" uyaziphakamisa. Futhi lokhu kuyiqiniso ikakhulukazi. Futhi lapho owesilisa eqala ukuhola kancane kunowesifazane, inkolelo-mbono esevele isunguliwe ivame ukubuzwa - ubani oyinhloko yomndeni, owenza izinqumo, ngubani ophethe umndeni?

Uma owesilisa ehola kancane kunowesifazane futhi ezama ukugcina indima yakhe eyinhloko, owesifazane unombuzo onengqondo ngokuphelele: "Kungani lokhu?" Futhi-ke kufanele ngempela uyeke ukubusa futhi uqaphele ukulingana.

Kunemindeni lapho umbono wokulingana ungabuzwa kwasekuqaleni. Nakuba kudingekile ukwenza imizamo eyanele, okokuqala kumuntu, ukuvuma ukuthi kungenzeka ukuthi owesifazane uyalingana ebuhlotsheni naye. Ngoba sinezitatimende eziningi ezicashile ezibandlululayo, njengokuthi “ingqondo yabesifazane” (okusho ukuthi, okokuqala nje, ukungabi bikho komqondo), noma “imizwa yowesifazane”, noma ukuthi “abesifazane babona izihlahla, futhi amadoda abona ihlathi”. Kukhona inkolelo yokuthi indoda inombono ofaneleke kakhulu womhlaba. Bese kuthi ngokuzumayo owesifazane, kungakhathaliseki ukuthi ingqondo yakhe ingowesilisa noma owesifazane, uzibonakalisa ekwazi ukuzuza nokuletha imali eyengeziwe. Kuleli qophelo kukhona indawo yokuxoxisana.

Kimina kubonakala sengathi kuyasiza ukuxoxisana ngemali (ubani owenza muphi umnikelo emndenini), ngoba imali akuyona yodwa umnikelo. Kodwa futhi, ngokuvamile emindenini, ebuhlotsheni, emasikweni ethu, kunomuzwa wokuthi umnikelo wemali emndenini uyigugu kakhulu, uyigugu kakhulu kunokuba, isibonelo, imisebenzi yasekhaya, umkhathi, izingane. Kodwa uma indoda isilungele ukushintsha nowesifazane, ngokwesibonelo, onakekela ingane, okungenani isonto, futhi enze yonke imisebenzi yakhe, khona-ke indoda ingakwazi ukuhlaziya lesi simo ngokujwayelekile futhi ishintshe imibono yayo mayelana nenani. yomnikelo wowesifazane.

Ucabanga ukuthi umbhangqwana, oqale umiselwe ukulingana futhi ohlelwa njengenyunyana yabalingani ababili abalinganayo, kulula ukubhekana nesimo sokungalingani kwezimali?

I-VM: Ngicabanga kanjalo. Lapha, kunjalo, kukhona futhi inombolo yemibuzo. Isibonelo, indaba yokwethenjwa. Ngoba singakwazi ukubonana njengabalingani abalinganayo, kodwa ngesikhathi esifanayo singathembani. Bese kuba khona izihloko ezinjengokuncintisana, ukuthola ukuthi ubani onenzuzo. Ngendlela, lokhu akusewona umbuzo wokulingana, kodwa umbuzo wobulungisa. Kungenzeka ngempela ukuncintisana nomlingani olinganayo.

Yingakho ngokuvamile, lapho bobabili abalingani behola, kuba nobunzima ekuxoxeni ngesabelomali. Hhayi kuphela ukuthi ubani ohola kakhulu, futhi ohola kancane, futhi ubani owenza imuphi umnikelo kusabelomali, kodwa futhi: ingabe sinesabelomali esifanayo noma ingabe wonke umuntu uneyakhe? Ubani owenza ukuthi yiziphi izidingo ngezindleko zesabelomali esijwayelekile? Ingabe kukhona ozidonsela ingubo?

Ubudlelwano bezezimali bubonisa ngokuyinhloko ukusebenzisana komndeni uwonke nakwezinye izinto.. Ngakho-ke, uma kungenzeka ukwakha ubudlelwano bezezimali obufanele kokubili, futhi kukhona ukuzimisela ukugxila kulokhu, khona-ke ngokuvamile imithetho yomdlalo iyaxoxwa futhi ibe sobala.

Ingabe ikhona imodeli enempilo, enekhono futhi ephumelelayo yokwakha ubudlelwano bezezimali, noma ingabe incike kubabhangqwana isikhathi ngasinye nokuthi hlobo luni lwabantu abakha lo mbhangqwana, ezicini zabo zomuntu siqu?

I-VM: Mhlawumbe, hhayi esikhathini eside esidlule, eminyakeni engaba ngu-20 edlule, iningi, kuhlanganise nezazi zokusebenza kwengqondo, lalithambekele ekukholweni ukuthi kukhona isakhiwo somndeni esiphumelela kakhulu futhi esisebenzayo. Futhi kulesi sakhiwo, ngempela, kwakuyindoda eyabelwe indima yomuntu oholayo, futhi owesifazane - ukudalwa komkhathi womzwelo, njalonjalo. Lokhu kuphinde kube ngenxa yokubusa kwezinkulumo zokhokho kanye nesakhiwo somnotho esikhona. Manje lesi simo sesishintshe kakhulu ezweni lakithi, ikakhulukazi emadolobheni amakhulu. Imisebenzi eminingi yabesilisa ayisenanzuzo ngaphezu kwabesifazane; owesifazane angase abe umphathi ophezulu, njengendoda. Akukhona ngamandla omzimba.

Ngakolunye uhlangothi, umbuzo wokuthi kukhona ukusatshalaliswa okunempilo uvela njalo. Ngenxa yokuthi othile ucabanga ukuthi kunempilo lapho wonke umuntu enesabelomali sakhe, othile ucabanga ukuthi isabelomali kufanele sibe sobala. Ngokubona kwami, isimo esinempilo kakhulu yilapho abantu bekwazi ukuxoxa ngokukhululekile futhi baphume engcindezini yemibono ebonakala sengathi ithathwa kalula. Ngoba ngokuvamile abantu bahlangana nemibono elungiselelwe mayelana nendima yowesifazane nendoda emndenini, mayelana nendima yemali, kodwa le mibono ingahluka kakhulu. Futhi abaqapheli ngaso sonke isikhathi, ngoba abantu babaletha emndenini wabo, indawo yabo enobungane. Futhi, ukubaletha njengendaba, bangase bangawaphimisi, bangase bangaqondi ukuthi kwenzekani kubo. Bese kuba nokungqubuzana.

Ngingasho ukuthi ukungqubuzana ngemali akukhona njalo ukungqubuzana ngemali. Ukungqubuzana mayelana nokuqonda, ubulungisa, ukuqashelwa kwegalelo, ukulingana, inhlonipho.... Okusho ukuthi, uma sekulula ukuxoxa ngayo yonke le mibuzo: “Umuphi kithi onaka ukubaluleka kwemali ebudlelwaneni?”, “Uma uthi uhola kancane, uchaza ukuthini?”, “Uma uthi ukuthi ngiyahaha noma ngisebenzisa imali eningi - kakhulu maqondana nokuthi yini?», "Kungani lokhu kubaluleke kakhulu kuwe?".

Uma umbhangqwana unethuba lokuxoxa ngalezi zinkinga, ithuba lokuthi bazokwakha ubuhlobo obufanele, obuzolethela injabulo, hhayi ukuhlupheka, liyakhula. Ngakho-ke, kimina, ubudlelwano obunempilo, okokuqala, lobo budlelwano obusobala futhi okuxoxwe ngakho.

Ngokuhlangenwe nakho kwakho, bangaki abashadikazi abafinyelele lelo banga lokuvuleleka, obala, kanye nekhono lokuqaphela la mamodeli ahlukene nokungqubuzana kwawo? Noma ingabe isahlala iyicala elingavamile, futhi ngokuvamile imali ingumthombo ofihliwe wokungezwani?

I-VM: Nginemibono eminingana lapha. Ngithintwa izithandani ezihlangabezane nobunzima lapho lolu daba lungaxazululeki. Futhi ngalezo zithandani ezingezi ukuzobonisana, ngingaqagela nje. Kungenzeka ukuthi laba abashadikazi benza kahle, empeleni, yingakho bengadingi ukuza. Noma mhlawumbe lezi yizithandani lapho lolu daba luvalwa khona, futhi abantu abakakulungeli ukuxoxa ngalo futhi balukhulume nomuntu wesithathu noma ndawonye.

Ngakho-ke, manje ngicabanga ukuthi abantu abakulungele ukufuna usizo kusazi sokusebenza kwengqondo ezimweni ezinzima ngokuvamile bagxile ekutholeni isisombululo, engxoxweni. Okungenani sebekulungele lokhu kuvuleka. Kimina kubonakala sengathi lokhu kuthanda ukuxoxa kuyakhula. Abaningi bayaqonda ukuthi amadoda alahlekelwe amandla abo angokomthetho, okungukuthi, wonke amandla amadoda anawo manje, ngokuyinhloko, asevele engekho emthethweni, awalungiswa nganoma iyiphi indlela. Ukulingana kumenyezelwe.

Umzamo wokulondoloza ukuphakama kwakhe uholela ekuntuleni kokuphikisana komuntu. Lokhu kuvame ukuholela ezingxabanweni. Kodwa othile uza nalezi zingxabano, uyasiqaphela lesi simo, ubheka enye indlela, kodwa othile uzama ukusungula la mandla ngamandla. Isihloko sodlame, ngeshwa, sibalulekile emphakathini wethu. Ngokuvamile amadoda azama ukunxephezela ukulahlekelwa amandla uma eqala ukuhola kancane. Konje, lesi yisimo esivamile: lapho indoda iphumelela kancane, ihola kancane, khona-ke isihloko sobudlova singase siphakame emndenini..

Uthi imali ihlale ingamandla, ilawula njalo ngezinga elithile. Imali ihlobene kanjani nocansi?

I-VM: Angisho ukuthi imali ingamandla ngaso sonke isikhathi. Ngokuvamile kumayelana namandla nokulawula, kodwa ngokuvamile kuphathelene nobulungisa, ngothando, nokunakekela. Imali ihlale ingokunye, ngokwesiko lethu inikezwe incazelo enkulu kakhulu neyinkimbinkimbi.. Kodwa uma sikhuluma ngocansi, ubulili bubuye bunikezwe izincazelo eziningi ezahlukene, futhi kwezinye izindawo buphambana kahle nemali.

Isibonelo, owesifazane unikezwe izinga elikhulu lobulili njengento yocansi. Futhi owesifazane angayichitha: ayinike noma angayiniki indoda, ayithengisele indoda, futhi hhayi ngokwengqikithi yezinsizakalo zocansi. Ngokuvamile lo mbono uvela emndenini. Indoda iyahola, futhi owesifazane kufanele ayinikeze induduzo, kuhlanganise nobulili. Ngalesi sikhathi, indoda kufanele «ikhiphe», futhi owesifazane kumele anikeze leli thuba. Kunesici sokuhweba lapho owesifazane engalahlekelwa ukuxhumana nezidingo zakhe, ngezifiso zakhe, azishiye eceleni.

Kodwa uma isimo ngemali sishintsha, uma manje sekucacile ukuthi bobabili owesilisa nowesifazane banomnikelo wezezimali, futhi akucaci ukuthi ubani onokuningi (noma kusobala ukuthi owesifazane unokuningi), khona-ke umbuzo mayelana nocansi. ubudlelwano bushintsha ngokushesha. : “Kungani sicabanga kakhulu ngezidingo zakho? Kungani izidingo zami zingekho obala? Ngempela, umuzwa wokuthi ubulili bungowamadoda akhe isiko elithile, ocansini owesifazane njengento, ungabuyekezwa uma owesifazane ethola okwengeziwe.

Owesifazane angase futhi abe nethonya elikhulu, abuse, naye, angase angabi naso isikhathi esanele sokuqomisana, naye, angase afune ukwanelisa izidingo zakhe zobulili. Angakwazi nokwamukela imodeli yesilisa. Kodwa ngenxa yokuthi sekunesikhathi eside abantu besifazane besesimweni esibucayi, maningi amathuba okuthi banake izingxoxo, baqonde ukubaluleka kwezingxoxo. Ngakho-ke, abesifazane manje sebeba ngamandla aqhuba uguquko ngezindlela eziningi, uguquko olusuka emibonweni engajwayelekile, eseluvele lwenziwe lubheke ezixazululweni okuxoxiwe ngaso.

Ngendlela, ngalesi sikhathi amathuba amaningi amasha angavuleka empilweni yocansi emndenini: kukhona ukuqondisa ekutholeni injabulo, lapho abantu bengaqala ukujabulisana. Ngoba emadodeni ngokujwayelekile, kubalulekile futhi kubalulekile ukuthola injabulo kumlingani.

Okungukuthi, kungaba ukunyakaza okunempilo, asikho isidingo sokwesaba lokhu, zonke lezi zinguquko zezezimali? Ingabe banganikeza umphumela omuhle?

I-VM: Ngisho ngibamukele. Iqiniso liwukuthi ngezindlela eziningi ziphenduka zibe buhlungu, kodwa ziholela ekubuyekezweni kwemibono. Kubuhlungu kulabo abavame ukuba nelungelo, abangazuzwa lutho, bavikelekile ngokuba ngobulili obunamandla. Futhi manje lelo lungelo alisekho. Abesilisa ababengajwayele lokhu, ababekholelwa ukuthi amandla abo kanye nezinzuzo zabo phezu kowesifazane zilungisiwe, ngokuzumayo bazithola besesimweni lapho bedinga ukufakazela lezi zinzuzo. Lokhu kungase kucindezele amadoda futhi kubangele ukungezwani ebudlelwaneni.

Ukuze ngandlela thize unciphise ukungezwani, udinga ukukuletha endaweni evulekile yengxoxo. Udinga ukuthola amagama ozokusho, ukuze ulungele. Futhi kumadoda amaningi, ukukhuluma ngemizwa yabo, izidingo zabo, imibono kuyinto engavamile. Akuyona indoda. Isimo sabo samasiko kanye nenhlalo-mnotho sesishintshile, amathuluzi abo avamile amandla asusiwe kubo. Ngakolunye uhlangothi, abazange bazi kahle amathuluzi adingekayo manje: ukukhuluma, ukuphimisela, ukuchaza, ukuthethelela isikhundla sabo, ukwenza ngokulingana nabesifazane. Bakulungele ukukwenza namadoda, kodwa abakulungele ukukwenza nomlingani wabo - owesifazane. Kodwa ngithanda umphakathi lapho kunokuhlukahlukana okwengeziwe, izingxoxo ezengeziwe, inkhulumomphendvulwano eyengeziwe.

Yebo, kumuntu odinga amandla, amalungelo akhe angasekho, lokhu kuyisinyathelo esingathandeki, futhi angadabuka futhi acasuke ngakho. Kodwa kulokhu, lokhu kunyakaza akunakugwenywa. Yebo, ngiyayithanda. Futhi abanye abantu abakuthandi. Kodwa kungakhathaliseki ukuthi uyathanda noma cha, kufanele ubhekane nakho. Ngakho-ke, ngiphakamisa ukuthi abantu abazithola bekulesi simo bathole amathuluzi amasha. Ngena engxoxweni, zama ukukhuluma ngezinto ezinzima, kuhlanganise nalezo okungajwayelekile ukukhuluma ngazo, futhi lokhu ngokuyinhloko imali nobulili. Futhi thola izivumelwano ezizohlangabezana nezidingo nezintshisekelo zabo bobabili ozakwethu.

¹ Inhlolokhono yaqoshwa iphrojekthi ye-Psychologies ethi "Isimo: Ebudlelwaneni" emsakazweni othi "Culture" ngo-Okthoba 2016.