“Ukucwaninga ngobulili kuvame ukuvinjelwa abelaphi ngokwabo, abamane bangakwazi ukubuza imibuzo efanele,” kusho isazi sokusebenza kwengqondo u-Otto Kernberg. Saxoxa naye ngothando oluvuthiwe, ubulili bezingane, nalapho uFreud ahamba khona.
Unezici ezicijile kanye nokubukeka okuqinile, okuhlabayo. Esihlalweni esikhulu esiqoshiwe esinomhlane ophakeme, ufana ne-Bulgakov's Woland. Kuphela esikhundleni seseshini yomlingo ngokuchayeka okulandelayo, uqhuba ukuhlaziya okuningiliziwe kwamacala avela kumkhuba wakhe kanye nomkhuba wama-psychotherapists akhona emhlanganweni.
Kodwa kukhona okumangalisayo lapho u-Otto Kernberg engena khona ekujuleni kwendaba engaqondakali njengobulili. Wakha ithiyori yesimanje ye-psychoanalytic yobuntu kanye nendlela yakhe ye-psychoanalytic, wahlongoza indlela entsha yokwelashwa kwezinkinga zobuntu bomngcele kanye nokubukeka okusha kwe-narcissism. Futhi ngokuzumayo washintsha isiqondiso socwaningo futhi wamangala wonke umuntu ngencwadi ekhuluma ngothando nobulili. Ukuqonda ama-nuances acashile alobu budlelwano obubucayi bungaba nomona hhayi kuphela ngabasebenza nabo bezengqondo, kodwa futhi nezimbongi, mhlawumbe.
I-Psychology: Ingabe ubulili bomuntu buvumelekile esifundweni sesayensi?
U-Otto Kernberg: Kuphakama ubunzima ngocwaningo lwezinqubo zomzimba: kuyadingeka ukubheka amavolontiya alungele ukwenza uthando ezinzwa, ngemishini ekhethekile nangaphansi kokuqondisa kososayensi. Kodwa ngokombono ongokwengqondo, angiboni izinkinga, ngaphandle kwento eyodwa: izazi zokusebenza kwengqondo kanye nabelaphi bavame ukuba namahloni ukubuza imibuzo efanele mayelana nokuphila kocansi.
Izazi zokusebenza kwengqondo? Akuwona amaklayenti abo?
Eqinisweni indaba! Akuwona kakhulu amaklayenti anamahloni, kodwa ama-psychotherapists ngokwawo. Futhi kuyize ngokuphelele: uma ubuza imibuzo efanele elandela ku-logic yengxoxo, khona-ke uzothola ulwazi oludingayo. Ngokusobala, abelaphi abaningi abanalo ulwazi nolwazi lokuqonda kahle ukuthi imiphi imibuzo mayelana nempilo yocansi yeklayenti okufanele ibuzwe - futhi ngasiphi isikhathi.
Kubalulekile ukuthi umelaphi ahlakaniphe, avuleleke ngokomzwelo, futhi abe nokuvuthwa okwanele komuntu. Kodwa ngesikhathi esifanayo, udinga ikhono lokubona okuhlangenwe nakho kwakudala, hhayi ukuba aqine kakhulu futhi alinganiselwe.
Ingabe zikhona izindawo zempilo ezivaliwe ukuze kwenziwe ucwaningo?
Kimina kubonakala sengathi singakwazi futhi kufanele sikufunde yonke into. Futhi isithiyo esiyinhloko isimo sengqondo somphakathi mayelana nokubonakaliswa okuthile kobulili. Akubona ososayensi, ama-psychoanalyst, noma amakhasimende avimbela lolu hlobo locwaningo, kodwa umphakathi. Angazi ukuthi kunjani eRussia, kodwa e-USA namuhla, isibonelo, kunzima ngokungacabangi ukutadisha konke okuhlobene nobulili ezinganeni.
Ubudlelwano obuqhubekayo bungaholela ekuzuzweni kothando locansi oluvuthiwe. Noma mhlawumbe cha
Okuxakayo ukuthi ngososayensi baseMelika abake baba ngamavulandlela kulo mkhakha wolwazi. Kodwa zama manje ukucela uxhaso lwezimali zocwaningo oluhlobene nocansi lwezingane. Okungcono kakhulu, ngeke bakunike imali, futhi okubi kakhulu, bangakubika emaphoyiseni. Ngakho-ke, lolu hlobo locwaningo cishe alukho. Kodwa zibalulekile ekuqondeni ukuthi ubulili bukhula kanjani eminyakeni ehlukene, ikakhulukazi, ukuthi ubulili bobulili bakheka kanjani.
Uma singakhulumi ngezingane, kodwa ngabantu abadala: ungakanani umqondo wothando oluvuthiwe ocansini, obhala ngakho okuningi, okuhlobene nobudala bezinto eziphilayo?
Ngomqondo wokuphila komuntu, umuntu uvuthwa othandweni lwezocansi ebusheni noma ebusheni. Kodwa uma ehlushwa, ngokwesibonelo, ngenxa yokuphazamiseka kobuntu okunzima, khona-ke ukuvuthwa kungase kuthathe isikhathi eside. Ngesikhathi esifanayo, isipiliyoni sokuphila sidlala indima ebalulekile, ikakhulukazi uma kuziwa kubantu abanenhlangano evamile noma ye-neurotic ubuntu.
Kunoma yikuphi, umuntu akufanele acabange ukuthi uthando lobulili oluvuthiwe ubuhlobo obutholakala kuphela kubantu abangaphezu kweminyaka engama-30 noma ngaphezulu kwe-40 ubudala. Ubudlelwano obunjalo bufinyeleleka ngisho nakubantu abaneminyaka engu-20 ubudala.
Ngake ngabona ukuthi izinga le-pathology yomuntu ngamunye wozakwethu alikuvumeli ukubikezela ukuthi impilo yabo ndawonye izoba kanjani. Kwenzeka ukuthi abantu ababili abanempilo ngokuphelele baxhumene, futhi lesi isihogo sangempela. Futhi ngezinye izikhathi bobabili abalingani banezinkinga ezinzima zobuntu, kodwa ubuhlobo obuhle.
Iyiphi indima edlalwa isipiliyoni sokuhlala ndawonye nomlingani oyedwa? Ingabe imishado emithathu ehlulekile «ndawonye» inganikeza isipiliyoni esidingekayo esizoholela othandweni oluvuthiwe lobulili?
Ngicabanga ukuthi uma umuntu ekwazi ukufunda, khona-ke ekuhlulekeni naye udonsa izifundo zakhe. Ngakho-ke, ngisho nemishado engaphumeleli izosiza ekuvuthweni futhi iqinisekise impumelelo ebudlelwaneni obusha. Kodwa uma umuntu enezinkinga ezinkulu ezingokwengqondo, khona-ke akafundi lutho, kodwa umane aqhubeke nokwenza amaphutha afanayo emshadweni kuya emshadweni.
Ubuhlobo obuhlala njalo nomlingani ofanayo bungaholela ngokufanayo ekuzuzweni kothando lobulili oluvuthiwe. Noma bangase bangaholeli - ngiyaphinda futhi: okuningi kuncike ohlotsheni lwenhlangano yengqondo yomuntu ngamunye.
Yiziphi izinto ezintsha ozaziyo ngothando nezocansi uFreud, isibonelo, ayengazazi noma ayengakwazi?
Kudingeka siqale ngeqiniso lokuthi asiqondi kahle lokho uFreud ayekwazi futhi ayengakwazi. Ngokwakhe uthe akafuni ukubhala ngothando kwaze kwanqamuka ukuba yinkinga kuye. Kodwa ngakho, eqinisweni, akazange abhale lutho. Kusukela lapho singaphetha ngokuthi akazange ayixazulule le nkinga empilweni yakhe yonke. Akufanele umsole ngalokhu: emva kwakho konke, lokhu kungumuntu futhi akumangazi neze. Abantu abaningi abakwazi ukuxazulula le nkinga impilo yabo yonke.
Kodwa ngokombono wesayensi, namuhla sazi okuningi ngothando kunoFreud. Isibonelo, wayekholelwa ukuthi ngokutshala i-libido ebuhlotsheni bothando, sisebenzisa "izindawo zokugcina" zayo. Lokhu ukuduka okujulile. I-Libido ayiwona uwoyela noma amalahle, ukuze "izindawo" zayo ziqedwe. Ngokutshala imali ebudlelwaneni, sizicebisa ngesikhathi esifanayo.
UFreud wayekholelwa ukuthi i-super-ego kwabesifazane ayichazwanga njengakwabesilisa. Lokhu futhi kuyiphutha. UFreud wayecabanga ukuthi umona wepipi ungamandla anamandla athinta abesifazane. Futhi lokhu kuyiqiniso, kodwa amadoda nawo ayathinteka ngenxa yomona wemvelo yabesifazane, futhi uFreud akazange aqaphele lokhu. Ngamafuphi, i-psychoanalysis ayizange ime yonke le minyaka.
Uphikisa ngokuthi inkululeko ebudlelwaneni bobulili obuvuthiwe ikuvumela ukuthi uphathe umlingani wakho njengento.
Ngisho kuphela ukuthi esimweni sobudlelwane bocansi obunempilo, obuvumelanayo, yonke imizwa yobulili ingabandakanyeka: ukubonakaliswa kwe-sadism, i-masochism, i-voyeurism, i-exhibitionism, i-fetishism, njalonjalo. Futhi umlingani uba into yokwaneliseka kwalezi zifiso ezidabukisayo noma ze-masochistic. Lokhu kungokwemvelo, noma yimiphi imizwa yocansi ihlale ihlanganisa ingxube yazo zombili izingxenye ezivusa inkanuko kanye nolaka.
Akudingekile ukuba umbhangqwana uvotele umuntu oyedwa okhethweni. Kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba nemibono efanayo ngokuhle nokubi
Kubalulekile ukukhumbula kuphela ukuthi ebuhlotsheni obuvuthiwe, umlingani oba yizinto zalezi zifiso uvumelana nokubonakaliswa kwabo futhi ujabulele okwenzekayo. Ngaphandle kwalokho, asikho isidingo sokukhuluma ngothando oluvuthiwe.
Yini ongayifisela umbhangqwana osemusha ngobusuku bangaphambi komshado?
Ngingabafisela ukuzithokozisa bodwa. Ungagcini nje emibonweni ebekiwe mayelana nokulungile nokungalungile ocansini, ungesabi ukucabanga, ukufuna nokuthola injabulo. Ngaphezu kwalokho, kubalulekile ukuthi ukuphila kwabo kwansuku zonke kusekelwe ukuqondana kwezifiso. Ukuze bakwazi ukwabelana ngezibopho, ndawonye baxazulule imisebenzi ebhekene nabo.
Futhi ekugcineni, kungaba kuhle uma izinhlelo zabo zenani okungenani zingangqubuzani. Lokhu akusho ukuthi kumele bavotele umuntu oyedwa okhethweni lukamongameli. Kubaluleke kakhulu ukuthi babe nemibono efanayo mayelana nokuhle nokubi, izifiso ezingokomoya. Zingaba yisisekelo sesimiso esivamile samagugu, sokuziphatha okuhlangene esikalini sombhangqwana othile. Futhi lesi isisekelo esithembeke kakhulu sobambiswano oluqinile kanye nokuvikelwa kwabo okuthembekile.